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Is it possible to rebuild a top team in world club soccer?
And lets try this again since I can't add/wait for Soccernets Stat Sheet to update.
The only players who have more EPL goals than Clint Dempsey are Robin van Persie, Wayne Rooney, Sergio Aguero, Demba Ba, Yakubu and Edin Dzeko.
Freedom to score goals.
The only players who have more EPL goals than Clint Dempsey are Robin van Persie, Wayne Rooney, Sergio Aguero, Demba Ba, Yakubu and Edin Dzeko.
Freedom to score goals.
I have no sympathy for avb. I don't think he had an impossible task. The claim that he had to overhaul an aging squad is overplayed because that will always be a gradual process. They had great young talent added to the squad like sturridge and mata but he was a fool to ignore drogba and lampard. I am sure Abramovich wanted to see a more attacking style but you still have to be able to defend against dangerous rivals and hold leads, especially when your center forward isn't scoring. I think it was a mistake to bring in merieles. Its not an upgrade from lampard and in addition to his trust in torres it to aligned the old leaders of the club against him.
but I think roman is at fault to for this too. they brought in avb as the new mourinho but the only similarities were they were both young portuguese managers when chelsea hired them.
but I think roman is at fault to for this too. they brought in avb as the new mourinho but the only similarities were they were both young portuguese managers when chelsea hired them.
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Originally Posted by Gratefulphish41 Is it possible to rebuild a top team in world club soccer? |
I guess it depends on what you mean by "rebuild." It's certainly not like the NFL/NBA/NHL where you can tank a couple of seasons and stock up on high draft picks.
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Originally Posted by Gratefulphish41 Is it possible to rebuild a top team in world club soccer? |
I'd say so but it will cost you. the clearest example is real madrid. Mourinho came in and sold great players like robben and sneijder and built a top team but spent a ton of money in the process. few managers have taken on that sort of task and are prepared to do it again.
"The only players who have more EPL goals than Clint Dempsey are Robin van Persie, Wayne Rooney, Sergio Aguero, Demba Ba, Yakubu and Edin Dzeko."
let the record show he's level with Frank Lampard, who for some reason couldn't get games.
let the record show he's level with Frank Lampard, who for some reason couldn't get games.
I actually blame Torres for everything that is happening at Chelsea. It's 100% his fault.
lolTorres
lolTorres
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Originally Posted by Ashaman200 Quote:
I guess it depends on what you mean by "rebuild." It's certainly not like the NFL/NBA/NHL where you can tank a couple of seasons and stock up on high draft picks. |
Think Thurm and I were on the same page. Though I learned yesterday that Mourinho is a bad La Liga coach.
In world soccer, or at least England, team's can afford to incur year on year loses in the standings, to a certain point. If you're a title contender, you don't have to win but you can't finish outside of the Top Four. If you're mid table, you can drop 8 spots in the standings, as long as you avoid relegation.
For Chelsea or other squads trying to completely shed old skin, this balancing act seems impossible. If you turn the squad over completely, you might be better off in the long run but you run a big risk of dropping out of the Top Four. If you do it half assed where some stay, some go (this year's choice), it seems safer but big egos negate any developmental goodwill incurred.
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Originally Posted by yankeephan88 "The only players who have more EPL goals than Clint Dempsey are Robin van Persie, Wayne Rooney, Sergio Aguero, Demba Ba, Yakubu and Edin Dzeko."
let the record show he's level with Frank Lampard, who for some reason couldn't get games. |
Not according to the linked list but ESPN's web department isn't the tightest ship around.
Liverpool dropped out of the top four and have been "rebuilding," right? If they had done a better job spending their money, they could easily be back in the CL places at the end of this year, especially considering Arsenal's and Chelsea's issues.
I'm trying to prove my point that a team can drop from the top of the table and rebuild over a couple of seasons using a team that has not successfully made its way back into the top four, so I probably should give up before I waste any more words on it.
I'm trying to prove my point that a team can drop from the top of the table and rebuild over a couple of seasons using a team that has not successfully made its way back into the top four, so I probably should give up before I waste any more words on it.
Is Luis Suarez trying to do too much? -- interesting article from Michael Cox (as always)
you're right, they were level on 10 a piece until this weekend.
Liverpool's rebuilding was a bit more complex they had 3 managers and two owners but if the money was spent better over the last year and a half they could easily be top 4. I think the suarez article is pretty accurate. Suarez likes to dribble through traffic and play one touch football. That is pretty much impossibe with andy carrol, so he has to do it alone. Also most throw ins are tossed towards suarez so he has to establish possession too. If there was an cultured center forward for suarez to play behind i think liverpool would score a ton more goals.
Dr Dre david villas-boas sucks da silva da perreira anderson da costa da lima naciemento is gone? Seems like a good time for me to reminder everyone that racism will get you no where. Why why why-o -- we hardly knew you handsome man. He came for the freaks and stayed for teh food. Also, we will always have that win over Valencia. EPL uber alles. poor david louise-dreyfuss.
Do you have any doves you can release yp88?
So I heard that they are shelving the Avengers and they are coming out with a Robin va Pursey biopic My Left Foot 2 -- FUCK YOU NASRI.
Do you have any doves you can release yp88?
So I heard that they are shelving the Avengers and they are coming out with a Robin va Pursey biopic My Left Foot 2 -- FUCK YOU NASRI.
Raphael Honingstein on Germany's recent friendly loss to France: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/raphael_honigstein/03/02/germany/index.html?sct=sc_t12_a1
It's interesting how Mertesacker remains such an important piece for Germany. Yes, Mertesacker has holes in his game, but he is hard to replace when he's out.
It's interesting how Mertesacker remains such an important piece for Germany. Yes, Mertesacker has holes in his game, but he is hard to replace when he's out.
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Originally Posted by sweetchuck So I heard that they are shelving the Avengers and they are coming out with a Robin va Pursey biopic My Left Foot 2 -- FUCK YOU NASRI. |
I am buying advanced tickets.
Mou Mou Mou...
Saying he is bad is like suggesting milk needs to be thrown out on the "sell by" date.
Mooooouuuuu! Got milk??
Saying he is bad is like suggesting milk needs to be thrown out on the "sell by" date.
Mooooouuuuu! Got milk??
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Originally Posted by THURMANATOR I have no sympathy for King Kenny. I don't think he had an impossible task. The claim that he had to overhaul an aging squad is overplayed because that will always be a gradual process. They had great young talent added to the squad like suarez and carroll but he was a fool to ignore bellamy and kuyt. I am sure Henry wanted to see a more attacking style but you still have to be able to defend against dangerous rivals and hold leads, especially when your forwards aren't scoring. I think it was a mistake to bring in adam. Its not an upgrade from meireles and in addition to his trust in suarez it aligned the leaders of the club who aren't in favor of defending racists against him.
but I think henry is at fault to for this too. they brought in old, out-of-the-game-for-10-years King Kenny as the young King Kenny but the only similarities were they were both named Kenny Dalglish when liverpool hired them. |
"Why isn't he even being criticized?"
"He was a great player, had a solid but not spectacular managerial record over 15-years ago, was Liverpool's Rudy Giuliani after Hillsborough"
"He was a great player, had a solid but not spectacular managerial record over 15-years ago, was Liverpool's Rudy Giuliani after Hillsborough"
Two points that occur after reading Phil Ball's latest:
1) It'll be nice to have Depor and, most likely, Celta Vigo back in La Liga. The place just doesn't seem right without them and without Galicia, more generally.
2) I am again reminded of how huge of an advantage it must be for Barca's academy to be able to have their reserves play in the equivalent of the Championship. Think about how much it would help the big English clubs to be able to run out their reserve or academy teams against the likes of West Ham, Brighton, Southhampton, etc. rather than relying on the top guys getting loans to other EPL teams and playing under other coaches who don't have their development as their first priority.
1) It'll be nice to have Depor and, most likely, Celta Vigo back in La Liga. The place just doesn't seem right without them and without Galicia, more generally.
2) I am again reminded of how huge of an advantage it must be for Barca's academy to be able to have their reserves play in the equivalent of the Championship. Think about how much it would help the big English clubs to be able to run out their reserve or academy teams against the likes of West Ham, Brighton, Southhampton, etc. rather than relying on the top guys getting loans to other EPL teams and playing under other coaches who don't have their development as their first priority.
Stunna_Number_1
Kenny is far more loved than Rudy. I'll just leave it at that.
The fans demanded kenny during the dark days of hodgson. They aren't going to flip based on a season where suarez was suspended for 9 games and gerrard and lucas missed half the season each. One of the things i like about english football is how tribal it is. No one will defend the interests of liverpool football club better than kenny. Loyalties matter. he gets that & the fans get it.
The spending. liverpool has (net) spent 36 mill since kenny showed up while they have substantially lowered their wage bill. Carrol is the only acquisition that can be viewed as a complete failure. Downing was overpriced but has played better in recent weeks and is a useful piece. Henderson is 21 years old, the captain of a very talented under 21 team and he will come good even if he was expensive. He is getting experience out on the right, not his ideal position but this will pay dividends for the club long term. i know you have a soft spot for enrique so i don't need to go there. Adam was a bargain. He was one of the top performers in the league last year has an incredibly gifted left foot and only cost 5 million pounds. thats not bad for a 3rd choice center mid.
This has been a difficult season for liverpool but the alternatives of blowing it up and bringing in a new manger is just not appealing at this point. You were one of the biggest carrol fluffers on this board. No one expected him to be completely worthless and its been a big enough hole in the ship to sink liverpool's ambitions.
Kenny is far more loved than Rudy. I'll just leave it at that.
The fans demanded kenny during the dark days of hodgson. They aren't going to flip based on a season where suarez was suspended for 9 games and gerrard and lucas missed half the season each. One of the things i like about english football is how tribal it is. No one will defend the interests of liverpool football club better than kenny. Loyalties matter. he gets that & the fans get it.
The spending. liverpool has (net) spent 36 mill since kenny showed up while they have substantially lowered their wage bill. Carrol is the only acquisition that can be viewed as a complete failure. Downing was overpriced but has played better in recent weeks and is a useful piece. Henderson is 21 years old, the captain of a very talented under 21 team and he will come good even if he was expensive. He is getting experience out on the right, not his ideal position but this will pay dividends for the club long term. i know you have a soft spot for enrique so i don't need to go there. Adam was a bargain. He was one of the top performers in the league last year has an incredibly gifted left foot and only cost 5 million pounds. thats not bad for a 3rd choice center mid.
This has been a difficult season for liverpool but the alternatives of blowing it up and bringing in a new manger is just not appealing at this point. You were one of the biggest carrol fluffers on this board. No one expected him to be completely worthless and its been a big enough hole in the ship to sink liverpool's ambitions.
Thurm - ok, I'm following you, but the King Kenny love is still strange to me. I don't get why fans of a club with a history of winning like Liverpool embrace a less than topnotch manager during their quest to return to the top of European football, because he loves the club & is loyal.
I don't see much of a difference between Dalglish's performance & AVB's, and it seems like you, like most of the press, have been on an anti-AVB crusade. Both were brought in to freshen up aging squads and get them into the CL. In the early stages of the rebuilding process, both have/had underperformed, but Chelsea still made it to the knockout stage of the CL, are 3pts off the fourth spot & are 7pts above Liverpool (who have a game in hand). AVB really only had time/board approval (I assume) to bring in two of his guys - Mata's been great, Meireles is what he is. Dalglish bought a handful of guys and most of them are playing much worse than they did for their previous clubs.
I like all the players Dalglish bought, other than Adam, but as you said, he's great for a third choice CM. I'm still a Carroll fluffer, but I prefer a team with a hold-up/target man. I find it hilarious how much you hate him. Like most of the new players, Suarez included, I don't think Kenny knows how to use him. My issue with Dalglish is not who he bought or how much he overpaid, but how he can't get them to score. How he escapes criticism baffles me, considering AVB was run out of town & Wenger has been shat on.
I don't see much of a difference between Dalglish's performance & AVB's, and it seems like you, like most of the press, have been on an anti-AVB crusade. Both were brought in to freshen up aging squads and get them into the CL. In the early stages of the rebuilding process, both have/had underperformed, but Chelsea still made it to the knockout stage of the CL, are 3pts off the fourth spot & are 7pts above Liverpool (who have a game in hand). AVB really only had time/board approval (I assume) to bring in two of his guys - Mata's been great, Meireles is what he is. Dalglish bought a handful of guys and most of them are playing much worse than they did for their previous clubs.
I like all the players Dalglish bought, other than Adam, but as you said, he's great for a third choice CM. I'm still a Carroll fluffer, but I prefer a team with a hold-up/target man. I find it hilarious how much you hate him. Like most of the new players, Suarez included, I don't think Kenny knows how to use him. My issue with Dalglish is not who he bought or how much he overpaid, but how he can't get them to score. How he escapes criticism baffles me, considering AVB was run out of town & Wenger has been shat on.
kenny has steve clarke who was instrumental in chelsea's mourinho years and they did very well with the the second half of last season. Clubs are led from the top but they have staffs that build the tactics. Alex ferguson alone doesn't draw up tactics.
I do not buy into the logic that kenny hasn't been criticized. the media have basically accused him of making liverpool a racist institution. Also saying chelsea have more points really doesn't mean much. They were better before they bought liverpool's best player and meireles, mata and brought sturridge back. Of course they are above liverpool in the table. Arsenal have been saved by van persie scoring more goals than henry did when they went unbeaten.
Players have played worse because the whole team was built around the premise carrol would take a running start at the back post and hurl his forehead into danger. There is no team with better crossers of the ball but suarez doesn't play best when living off of knock downs. The team can't score because in the absence of a center forward who can pass or create things, it becomes too tight for liverpool to create goal scoring opportunities. When you have a team of players who can cross and not tackle, when the only player on your team who can tackle gets injured you are fucked.
I think they bought too many players they thought could make the pass. Also they had no cover for lucas and overplayed him. i think they can learn from these lessons instead of bringing in somebody from outside who will reshuffle the team and take 6 months top figure out his problems.
I do not buy into the logic that kenny hasn't been criticized. the media have basically accused him of making liverpool a racist institution. Also saying chelsea have more points really doesn't mean much. They were better before they bought liverpool's best player and meireles, mata and brought sturridge back. Of course they are above liverpool in the table. Arsenal have been saved by van persie scoring more goals than henry did when they went unbeaten.
Players have played worse because the whole team was built around the premise carrol would take a running start at the back post and hurl his forehead into danger. There is no team with better crossers of the ball but suarez doesn't play best when living off of knock downs. The team can't score because in the absence of a center forward who can pass or create things, it becomes too tight for liverpool to create goal scoring opportunities. When you have a team of players who can cross and not tackle, when the only player on your team who can tackle gets injured you are fucked.
I think they bought too many players they thought could make the pass. Also they had no cover for lucas and overplayed him. i think they can learn from these lessons instead of bringing in somebody from outside who will reshuffle the team and take 6 months top figure out his problems.
ah yeah
somebody fill me in cuz i'm a noob here.
if a player has 2 years left on his contract, does his team have ultimate say over who can buy him? or, more precisely, do they heavily weigh the player's opinion on where he would prefer to end up?
somebody fill me in cuz i'm a noob here.
if a player has 2 years left on his contract, does his team have ultimate say over who can buy him? or, more precisely, do they heavily weigh the player's opinion on where he would prefer to end up?
In the dressing-room the players grew tired of his timekeeping, fed up of him monitoring their arrival some days from the balcony of his first-floor office.
Some started a game among themselves, flying into the car park as the seconds counted down to the scheduled arrival time. They would jump out of their cars with moments to spare, winding up the manager by acknowledging him with a sarcastic wave as they headed in to change.
Battle lines had been drawn, with the players challenging every aspect of Villas-Boas’ micro-management.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2110222/Andre-Villas-Boas-sacked--Roman-Abramovich-blames-players.html#ixzz1oIB6GiQ6
Surprised we didn't hear more about this sooner.
Some started a game among themselves, flying into the car park as the seconds counted down to the scheduled arrival time. They would jump out of their cars with moments to spare, winding up the manager by acknowledging him with a sarcastic wave as they headed in to change.
Battle lines had been drawn, with the players challenging every aspect of Villas-Boas’ micro-management.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2110222/Andre-Villas-Boas-sacked--Roman-Abramovich-blames-players.html#ixzz1oIB6GiQ6
Surprised we didn't hear more about this sooner.
"Abramovich personally told the players they were responsible for his demise and warned them there will be 'massive changes' at Chelsea in the summer. "
i like this. sounds like a good attempt to put the fear in them.
i like this. sounds like a good attempt to put the fear in them.
This is a fantastic video. Saw it on Run of Play, which has strangely become much, much more active again now that it is a tumblr.
Barcelona Jazz
Barcelona Jazz
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_duke In the dressing-room the players grew tired of his timekeeping, fed up of him monitoring their arrival some days from the balcony of his first-floor office.
Some started a game among themselves, flying into the car park as the seconds counted down to the scheduled arrival time. They would jump out of their cars with moments to spare, winding up the manager by acknowledging him with a sarcastic wave as they headed in to change. Battle lines had been drawn, with the players challenging every aspect of Villas-Boas’ micro-management. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2110222/Andre-Villas-Boas-sacked--Roman-Abramovich-blames-players.html#ixzz1oIB6GiQ6 Surprised we didn't hear more about this sooner. |
This is pretty amazing stuff.