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attempting to tie 'free will' or the 'awareness of the universe' to actual physics or science is still a complete walk into fantasy land.
theoretical physics asks questions at the edge of the known, questions that are believed to be 'answerable'.
throwing in stuff from religion (which is what those subjects are) is much more a question of belief and faith than they are science. so, asking about these concepts to a well informed scientist is really no different than asking about them to anyone.
theoretical physics asks questions at the edge of the known, questions that are believed to be 'answerable'.
throwing in stuff from religion (which is what those subjects are) is much more a question of belief and faith than they are science. so, asking about these concepts to a well informed scientist is really no different than asking about them to anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassalone attempting to tie 'free will' or the 'awareness of the universe' to actual physics or science is still a complete walk into fantasy land.
theoretical physics asks questions at the edge of the known, questions that are believed to be 'answerable'. throwing in stuff from religion (which is what those subjects are) is much more a question of belief and faith than they are science. so, asking about these concepts to a well informed scientist is really no different than asking about them to anyone. |
Except they will have more depth of knowledge and can help show the fallacy of parts of your thinking.
I like the link.about numbers where there wasn't an answer to a problem so they created one. They found out the answer, but don't know what the variable means.
My belief is that when you dig deep enough you eventually run into "god" and the "soul". I believe the property of our life has to be similar to the property of the universe's "life".
If something is everything all at once, it's difficult to tell things apart.
When something is all-knowing and all-powerful, that something is actually limited to a large degree. Something that has always been omniscient never has the opportunity to learn, to be surprised, to be uncertain.... similarly, something that has always been omnipotent never has the opportunity to challenge itself, to overcome obstacles, to push through doubts and fears.
So, in order to make these experiences possible the onething/allthings/onlything 'split' itself into infinitely small pieces in a massively multiplayer organic roleplaying game, of which chemistry and physics are the programming language.
When something is all-knowing and all-powerful, that something is actually limited to a large degree. Something that has always been omniscient never has the opportunity to learn, to be surprised, to be uncertain.... similarly, something that has always been omnipotent never has the opportunity to challenge itself, to overcome obstacles, to push through doubts and fears.
So, in order to make these experiences possible the onething/allthings/onlything 'split' itself into infinitely small pieces in a massively multiplayer organic roleplaying game, of which chemistry and physics are the programming language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornchi Except they will have more depth of knowledge and can help show the fallacy of parts of your thinking. I like the link.about numbers where there wasn't an answer to a problem so they created one. They found out the answer, but don't know what the variable means. My belief is that when you dig deep enough you eventually run into "god" and the "soul". I believe the property of our life has to be similar to the property of the universe's "life". |
through out humanity, there has been a vast curtain of unknown. it is fun to speculate what is just beyond this curtain and what science may discover or speculate upon next. but, to consider what happens when the curtain is ripped down, there isn't anyone that is more equipped to make such considerations than anyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phriendofphans If something is everything all at once, it's difficult to tell things apart.
When something is all-knowing and all-powerful, that something is actually limited to a large degree. Something that has always been omniscient never has the opportunity to learn, to be surprised, to be uncertain.... similarly, something that has always been omnipotent never has the opportunity to challenge itself, to overcome obstacles, to push through doubts and fears. So, in order to make these experiences possible the onething/allthings/onlything 'split' itself into infinitely small pieces in a massively multiplayer organic roleplaying game, of which chemistry and physics are the programming language. |
this guy is getting somewhere
however, i wouldn't say the nature of the absolute is limited. it is unlimited, and doesn't need to learn since it is the source of all creation and learning. i think you are trying to answer the question WHY has it split itself infinitely small pieces like this....."learning" is a weird way to put it because it is implying it has something that it doesn't know. i'd say the answer to WHY is more along the lines of it's WILL. it's will to manifest itself, to tell its own story, to be instead of not being. it peers into its own depths and reality unfolds. it's will to EXPERIENCE ITSELF. to EXPERIENCE. to BE.
but yes at the same time there are in infinite amount of things to experience and learn
Quote:
Originally Posted by everythingnice weforgettenuno,
Since you seemed to be the most informed person in this thread what do you feel about determinism and free will? Do you honestly believe our lives were completely mapped out for us billions of years ago? Do you honestly believe we have no say in the direction of our lives? I would argue against hard determinism. Just because we can predict the motion of the planets or how a dice may fall that doesn't tell us that our lives are completely determined. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter. |
I don't believe in hard determinism, and I don't believe in free will either.
At a fundamental level the laws of physics are probabilistic - in most situations we can at best say what the probability of each outcome is, and cannot predict (even in principle with the most accurate possible information about our starting conditions) which of the possible outcomes will occur.
So if our body (and therefore our brain, and therefore our mind) is built out of the same kinds of matter obeying the same laws of physics as everything else, as it appears to be, then there's no room for free will. At best our decisions are quasi-random (like a computer that executes some logical process but has some randomness too), assuming quantum mechanics is even relevant, and at worst the quantum fluctuations simply aren't large enough to affect the macroscopic qualitative behavior, even if they do cause some electrons to jiggle about unpredictably.
In either case I don't see any room for free will.
The notion of free will relies on some sort of abstract ego that is separate from the brain and body, and yet interacts with it some how, but we simply don't see any evidence for such a thing. There's gravity, electroweak, and strong interactions. There's no "soul" interaction.
Can anyone make a strong scientific case that there is no infinity? It's not that I want to throw anything in anyone's face, it just seems this thread is gaining consensus that there is infinity. I am believing right now.
Any good counter arguments?
Any good counter arguments?
Watch that documentary ^. Really cool stuff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornchi Quote:
So where does one end and two begin if they exist? Or does that mean that infinity does not exist? |
One usually ends at Antelope, and two usually begins at DWD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger6161 Watch that documentary ^. Really cool stuff
|
That is a great video. I just finished part four. Will comment when I see the whole thing. Infinite hotel rooms and monkey's typing Shakespeare are great.
our local universe is not infinite its like a bubble surrounded by many other bubble universes.beyond that who knows so for now thats infinite as we know it.some people claim that our universe started with a least four other universes and can detected the radiation rements from these universes. we will never be able to study these places because they are separate from us now. just saying. look it up.
http://www.amazon.com/Everything-More-Compact-Infinity-Discoveries/dp/0393003388
http://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Aleph-Mathematics-Kabbalah-Infinity/dp/0743422996/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1328703058&sr=1-2
and while you're at it:
http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-that-Natural-History-Zero/dp/0195142373/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1328702999&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Drunkards-Walk-Randomness-Rules-Vintage/dp/0307275175/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1328703040&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Entanglement-Amir-Aczel/dp/0452284570/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c
http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Equation-Einstein-Relativity-Expanding/dp/0385334850/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b
http://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Aleph-Mathematics-Kabbalah-Infinity/dp/0743422996/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1328703058&sr=1-2
and while you're at it:
http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-that-Natural-History-Zero/dp/0195142373/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1328702999&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Drunkards-Walk-Randomness-Rules-Vintage/dp/0307275175/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1328703040&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Entanglement-Amir-Aczel/dp/0452284570/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c
http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Equation-Einstein-Relativity-Expanding/dp/0385334850/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b
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