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Posted: 11/29/05 2:13PM ET
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And Rolling Stone weighs in:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/8898045/thegratefuldead?pa
geid=rs.Home&pageregion=single1
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Posted: 11/29/05 2:18PM ET
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"look i understand that the SBDs are their property and they can do what they want with them"
Totally disagree. The band used to allow tapers to patch directly into the SBD - so, many of the SBD's out there belong to the tapers that patched in.
As a kid we used to call this behavior being an "Indian Giver." And, PLEASE, do not think they are "protecting" GDM employees and "the family," if that were really true Koons would never have cut John Kahn off of the regular checks Jerry had promised him - forever. John died partially because he was cut-off. Well, "forever" was about one year to Koons - the Black Widow. So, I think someone should *&@$ that Bitch. Jerry was great, but he was also pussy-whipped.
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Posted: 11/29/05 3:08PM ET
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Ya, They shoulda kept a tighter lid on release of sounboards and people "patching in". It is their product and their right. It does smack of greed but just maybe I'll go on that Buffet/Ratdog cruise so I can see Bobby eat a bag of cocks in luxury.
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Posted: 11/29/05 3:22PM ET
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"I'm sure that back in the day Jerry, Phil, Bobby et al. would have loved for the Grateful Dead to have been nothing more than the band members and their music, but it wasn't like that for very long. Why? Because of all of us. They built a huge organization - a corporation - around their band, not because they wanted to, but because the demand of the fans warranted it."
Of all the strange things I've read over the past week, this one is perhaps the strangest...
Near the end, they continued touring when they would have been wise to take a long break - and THAT was due to the momentum of their organization - the employees who were like family to them depended on the income from touring.
But to imagine that they only wanted to play for themselves from the beginning, that unwanted fans were somehow forcing them to sell tickets and sell records is just bizzare.
LP
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Posted: 11/29/05 3:24PM ET
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Obviously there are some pretty heated opinions on this thread, but let me tell you all why im real bumbed about the move on archive.
Ive been listening to the dead only for a couple of years and am real bumbed i never got to expierence any of those shows that i love listening to live. But it was archive that turned me on to the dead because there shows were so available. Everytime i would listen to a new show or discover a new song that i liked, i would immediatley start searching archive for a show. I have become quite the deadhead just in the past two years, mostly because of archive.
The thing that i am worried about is that the dead are going to take a step back and begin to fade away because they are as easily accessible. I mean what would of happened if i started listening to the dead a month or two ago or never at all before they did this. I mean i would never have heard many of the shows that turned me on to the dead experience. Im afraid other future dead fans will be lost.
Im not totally sure why after all these years the dead decided to do this and in my persnoal opinion, it sucks royally. Alot of us youngsters do everything over the internet, including talking to friends and strangers about music. To tell everyone that we have to go through the mail now and depend on someone else to be kind enough to take the time and offer B&P's and burn us the music is a real bummer. I don't even pay my bills through the mail, what makes you think im going to get my music through the mail. For whatever its worth, i think its a mistake and will begin the end of the grateful dead. Especially with the band not touring anymore.
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Posted: 11/29/05 8:16PM ET
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^^I sympathize with what your sayin, but the grateful dead is gone. Yeah, we have bobbys band, phils group, etc,... But the grateful dead ended in 1995. The only thing left is the music recordings, and the business.
Whatever you wanna call this mess that is GDM, it is only going to get worse. It's not going to get any better. Logically, in another ten years, bob and/or phil is not going to be out there. Then what will be left? Just another corporate business that is not in touch with what they are selling. Meanwhile, we are left to try and put the pieces together to make some kind of sense of this dabacle. It doesn't make any sense, and that's why everyone is so frustrated.
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Posted: 11/29/05 9:12PM ET
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McNally talks and sh**t comes out. Apparently it was for community that they stopped free shows and decided to pimp them all
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/30/arts/music/30dead.html
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Posted: 11/29/05 9:20PM ET
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They gave those Auds to the fans to share. Taking off auds makes no sense. Kills the spirit that may have already been dead.
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Posted: 11/29/05 11:43PM ET
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McNally says "The idea of a massive one stop website that does not build community is not what we had in mind. Our conclusion has been that it doesn't represent Grateful Dead Values".
So recreating a one stop website with a price tag is gonna help the community? If you are gonna whore yourself out, at least fess up to it. I've heard "rumours" that the entire archive may be sold to warner bros. Wouldn't that bring us all a little closer. What the community needs is a god damned break!! Quit trying to tell me your feeding me maple syrup when your chokeing me with cod liver oil.
Jeez, just when I was starting to get over this, they gotta say something stupid like that. "Grateful Dead Values", that sounds like something from the current administration. NO, I am sorry. This board is more of a community than GDM. COMMUNITY??? WTF!!!
As far as McNally goes, why does everyone that is close to the band refer to everything as "we". I thought all decisions were made exclusively by the remaining members. These are the fuckers that built the machine. As far as the fans building the machine goes, if it was too much, why didn't the boys walk away. Blameing consumers for the late eighties early ninties is bullshit. If they weren't getting their own kick backs they wouldn't have done it. If you are living your life for everyone elses satisfaction then you are a sucker!
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Posted: 11/30/05 9:58AM ET
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If Koons is primarily behind this then the hell if they will ever get anymore of my cash. If it's the boy's needing money that's a bit different, but fuck that cunt Koons.
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Posted: 11/30/05 11:00AM ET
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Well, Phil says it was done without his knowledge...hmmmmmmm.
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Posted: 11/30/05 12:53PM ET
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In my opinion, Phil has done a pretty good job of sticking to Jerry's wishes. Whether it was matters concerning Jerry's guitars, the music's availability, or anything else... Phil has stayed true to his friend, always advocating the stance that he believes Jerry would have wanted. I LOVE the Grateful Dead... but Jerry and Phil are what make me love it. The rest to me are likeable, but nothing more. This extends from both the playing to the ethics.
I think Phil is on the side of the fans. He wants everyone to have access to the music that we all love. He is the one who is taking a stand from within the machine, and I think we should all support him. Thanks Phil... the "Grateful Dead Values" are not Dead.
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Posted: 11/30/05 1:25PM ET
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oh, mcnally is much more full of shit than that even...the shows were on the archive because GD gave permission for them to be there.
GDM didn't accidentaly discover this site that had been blasting their music out over the internet. they were complicit in allowing all of that music to be there in the first place and then reconsidered.
well, they picked a great time to do this...right before the holiday season when everyone gets to vote with their wallets.
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Posted: 11/30/05 2:06PM ET
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Um, so there's a ratdog show here in Denver I have free tix ... I'm trying to figure should I go ?
I mean does anyone know what side of this deal Bobby has landed on??
Thanks
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Posted: 11/30/05 6:12PM ET
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Guess not... Fuck 'em I'm not going. Given Phil's take, I'll still go see him I guess.
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Posted: 11/30/05 6:21PM ET
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So the tickets were free? How is you not going to a show you didn't pay for much of a protest?
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Posted: 11/30/05 7:30PM ET
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It's a protest in his mind, that's what counts. If you gave a free Hummer to a strict environmentalist and they accepted and drove it, they would be a hypocrite.
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Posted: 11/30/05 9:59PM ET
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I don't totally trust anything that comes from the Phil camp. He was missing from all things jerry. I would like to hear Hunters take as the majority of the songs are his. I will still see Bobby every time he comes to within 1500 miles of where I'm at. Phil needs to be real close though
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Posted: 11/30/05 10:49PM ET
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Phil gave his reason for missing comes a time, and he's at least come forward now. More than we can say for Bobby. I wouldn't see him if he was .15 mies away.
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Posted: 11/30/05 10:49PM ET
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can I have your ratdog tickets bananas? I need two, something to do before the Jeff & Friends show.
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Posted: 12/01/05 12:27AM ET
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Crackedmyspine - phil DID or DID NOT give his reason for missing comes a time? if so, where/when? i heard it was the anti-phil sentiment in bobby's camp which mirrors phil's feelings towards them. they strongly disagree with fundamental grateful dead decisions such as the case in point - archive.org vs selling downloads for profit.
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Posted: 12/01/05 12:44AM ET
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Good. Bobby's three Fl shows were pretty crowded so if some stay away the rest of us will have a little more room. You guys should read Phils book. My take is he is a little insecure
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Posted: 12/01/05 2:36AM ET
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at any rate...the AUD's are back up on the archive
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Posted: 12/01/05 9:52AM ET
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As far as I understood, concerning the "Comes a time" thing... Phil was previously engaged that day. He was taking his son to college for the first time according to what I heard. I can't blame him for that. The other thing... we celebrate Jerry everyday, and we give Jerry shows every year, but I am sure that anyone with a kid heading off to college for the first time would have done the same. Regardless of the fact that we are all family, his real family still comes first... AND, there is still nothing to complain about... the lineup was already out of control.
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Posted: 12/01/05 1:15PM ET
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!!!If the GD's business model changes - good for them. They kept ticket prices low, let people tape, and took care of the fans at many times for a loss - now the fans cry (many of which never saw a show). People need back off and not cry like f'ing babies. It's a business people, you can't run a business giving everything away for free. Grateful Dead took care of the fans back in the day, now it's time for the fans to return the favor (and pay a small amount for the "priceless" recordings).!!!
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Posted: 12/01/05 1:25PM ET
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I've already paid more than a small amount for their priceless recordings, even with the Archive. That's what they don't get, is that it actually helps their business by creating interest and paying for a cleaner version of a show you know is killer. They put up the roadblock on this wonderful two way road you speak of. It was a boneheaded move, plain and simple.
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Posted: 12/01/05 2:26PM ET
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Really, for all of those who are all about paying for these shows, and telling everyone to shut up... guess what? If people hadn't bitched, they still would not be available. So, if you are that adamant about your position, then I can assume that you will no longer utilize Archive.org, and that you will be actively pursuing a way that you can find these recordings available for purchase. After all, you don't think we should have complained, then you should not be in support of anything that was accomplished through the complaints. In short, I got no problems with you if you pay for every show you get for the rest of your life, but if you want to come on here and bitch about people complaining, I don't expect any of you to utilize this service (which we don't really deserve, right?) again. If you do, you are a hypocrite. Peace.
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